Just discovered your brand, and have to say that i totally fell in love with yours controllers/concept. You are pushing the boundaries of controllers!!
Now, I’m wondering if, in the future, you think about to add some screen under faders in order to have some personalized visual feedback; as you can do with the Maschine (Native Instruments) in midi mode with Controller Editor.
It would be insane 
Thank you!
Hey @maxence.ducher!
Welcome to the forum and thanks for the kind words!
Now, I’m wondering if, in the future, you think about to add some screen under faders in order to have some personalized visual feedback; as you can do with the Maschine (Native Instruments) in midi mode with Controller Editor.
It would be insane
I agree entirely! it would be a great addition to the framework.
We are still thinking about it, and even did some prototyping but it is still a long way to go to be in production.
Let me take the opportunity to ask, if you had to choose from the following options (or add your own) which approach would you prefer?
1- A small 3-row color ( or monochrome?) screen that you can put under a component, let’s say up to 16 per controller.
2- A big, let’s say 4 inches, color (touch?) screen where you can display all the info, but only 1 per controller.
We are still thinking about the best approach, we would be happy to get insight from the community.
I am happy to share my thoughts with you!
With your controller, my goal would be to control multiple plugin/VST. Let’s say that for each programmed bank, I could control a plugin. And I have a lot of plugins… So I would need some visual feedback to remind me of the programming function on each component.
Maybe an illustration of the position of the screen for each components would be a better way to explain :
As you can see, I really don’t need a big touch screen. A basic bitch screen would make the job.
What do you think about that 
?
Cool, thanks for the input.
Yes, that would be super useful.
Two rows would be enough though?
And what about color or monochrome?
Oh my goodness this would be awesome!! Not sure about color or monochrome but something like the avid artist mix displays would be great. Can see those from all angles.
If this does happen, would existing units be able to be sent back to fit the displays?
Thanks!!!
hi @Ale and everyone! Haven’t been through here in a while (but I’ve been using my Yaeltex constantly, and it’s holding up really well!) Glad to see you’re still getting batches out in spite of everything, and I hope things are going smoothly and that you’re all hanging in there.
I’m going to have a little more time for side projects and (in addition to picking firmware hacking back up on the v0.20 base) I’ve been thinking about advanced concepts in controller mapping, so I was excited to hear that on-board screens are still under consideration.
So I’ve only ever used external devices with LED strips (think Mackie Control) and I think those would be a great addition to Yaeltex (split up as you say). I’d strongly suggest something like that over a big screen (which IMO would eat up too much space, be too computer-like, and would be hard for users to be flexible with). Something like what @maxence.ducher has in mind would be awesome.
However, I’d like to suggest an option 3. I just picked up an Arturia Minilab mk3 as a portable KB/controller. It has a tiny monochrome OLED screen which I didn’t think I was going to like, but I am absolutely blown away by how well it works and what a difference it makes. Even one of those per device, with some pre-defined screen modes (e.g. BIG TEXT over small text; [knob] Text | value; etc.) that can be switched by MIDI, and an efficient way to pass text/values into the modes over MIDI, would launch the Yaeltex framework into the stratosphere. And if you could have more than one per device, well, watch out!
I could write up MANY more thoughts about this if you have any interest in exploring the OLED option. (EDIT: looks like @ericgma has OLED in mind as well–just looked up the Avid Artist Mix and it has a bank of 8 of those.)
Dear @gc3
Thanks for your thoughtful message.
Indeed here we are, delivering batches through these turbulent times.
If you add to the global macro conditions the particularities of Argentina, I suppose we should be happy to be where we are.
Anyway, displays it’s definitely an element we want to add to the system, we are actually ordering some samples this week!
First, as @maxence.ducher suggested, we are exploring the small (OLED) size and multiple units path, we are considering a display size of half size of today’s grid unit (soon to be subdivided), so equal to or slightly less than 35 mm by 17,5 mm. We need to maintain the proportions constraints, it should fit under any present and (to some extent) future element.
Color and/or monochrome: we are pondering this one, we are ordering both.
Monochrome is perfectly fine, but with RGB you can “monochrome it” if you want but get all that color-coded data (and candy!) if you need it. The additional power consumption is a con for the RGB option (more if let’s say, max displays=16).
with some pre-defined screen modes (e.g. BIG TEXT over small text; [knob] Text | value; etc.) that can be switched by MIDI, and an efficient way to pass text/values into the modes over MIDI
And this is key, it has to be easily controllable with midi and fully addressable by SysEx.
I could write up MANY more thoughts about this if you have any interest in exploring the OLED option.
Please do!
I will share any progress made on our side.
If this does happen, would existing units be able to be sent back to fit the displays?
@ericgma I don’t have an answer for this one right now. It would involve a new front panel, and possibly some hw modifications, etc. Not impossible but not super easy.
Awesome! I’ll most likely get a new one anyway. I really like these controllers and having an oled display for parameters would be the best!
Hi! Chiming in to say that I’d also be extremely interested in the ability to have screens to see what parameters I have access to at any given moment. I feel like screens are a great bang for buck because they can be so dynamic and helpful in taking my eyes off of the computer screen. It’s the only thing preventing me from pulling the trigger on one of these controllers. As of now my top choice is still the Behringer X-Touch which has these dynamic scribble strips – unfortunately that thing is massive, and it has a lot of other features I don’t really need.
I’d also throw in my vote for:
-Several smaller screens as opposed to 1 larger one so that the text on the screen is as close to the knob/fader/button as possible, and so that you can see at a glance what each of the controls do, rather than a single screen. Basically what maxence.ducher showed in their (very cool) mockup, although I’m fine if it’s not possible for a screen to “share” a grid unit with another control. At least for my use case, I’d simply want a row of 8 grid units, each with 2 screens stacked vertically in them, and then a row of 8 encoders above and below the screens.
The problem with a single screen is that either you can only see a few parameters at a time, and you have to wait until a control is touched or moved (impossible in the case of buttons) in order to see what you’re controlling, or, if they display all the available parameters, the screen would have to be quite large and it can still be easy to adjust the wrong control because it’s not next to the label.
One exception would be if the screen was a large long strip that could span 8 grid units, allowing text labels to still be adjacent to their corresponding controls, similar to on the Ableton Push. Advantages to this would be that its (presumably) easier to manufacture and could possibly be upgraded down the line to display more complex information such as EQ curves in conjunction with some type of software. But the downside would be that it wouldn’t be applicable to layouts that don’t have 8 consecutive controls. Another downside would be that in case of defects, it’s presumably more expensive to replace a larger screen than a smaller one. So to me, multiple small screens still offers the most flexibility and clarity in terms of function.
I’d also prefer color screens over monochrome to take advantage of the track color coding abilities of Ableton / other DAWs for the (i’m assuming fairly common) situation where a controller has a row of controls representing some parameter across several tracks, such as a typical mixer setup.
My ideal controller would have 2 rows of 8 endless encoders with LED rings, with each encoder having a screen indicating the parameter its controlling and the value, and then some buttons to switch between the 8 modes. Essentially a MIDI Fighter Twister but with dynamic screens per knob. The platform ya’ll have created seems to be the closest thing I’ve seen to something that could do this.
Welcome to the forum @stephencolacurcio!
Thanks for the input, super interesting.
One exception would be if the screen was a large long strip that could span 8 grid units, allowing text labels to still be adjacent to their corresponding controls, similar to on the Ableton Push. Advantages to this would be that its (presumably) easier to manufacture and could possibly be upgraded down the line to display more complex information such as EQ curves in conjunction with some type of software. But the downside would be that it wouldn’t be applicable to layouts that don’t have 8 consecutive controls. Another downside would be that in case of defects, it’s presumably more expensive to replace a larger screen than a smaller one. So to me, multiple small screens still offers the most flexibility and clarity in terms of function.
Totally agree, maximum flexibility is independent displays and the ability to put them wherever you want (either vertical or horizontal!) with a decent max amount (we are aiming for 16, we will see), this is the path we want to take first.
After we gather data on how users actually use them, we might make elements reflecting this, for example with 2, 4, or 8 displays in a row.
We are also thinking of giving the option to configure any screen as a “main” one. Even if it’s small we could start opening the door for some features we have in mind, like configuring the controller on the device, etc.
I’d also prefer color screens over monochrome to take advantage of the track color coding abilities of Ableton / other DAWs for the (i’m assuming fairly common) situation where a controller has a row of controls representing some parameter across several tracks, such as a typical mixer setup.
Agree!
My ideal controller would have 2 rows of 8 endless encoders with LED rings, with each encoder having a screen indicating the parameter its controlling and the value, and then some buttons to switch between the 8 modes. Essentially a MIDI Fighter Twister but with dynamic screens per knob. The platform ya’ll have created seems to be the closest thing I’ve seen to something that could do this.
We will get there
This looks really good! And this is my idea:
I am an ableton user and I plan on using a PUSH 2 and an Icon Qcon Pro X stack on top of the PUSH (or beneath). (expandable to 16 channels with 2 pushes and an icon qcon pro x extender)
I would have them linked so that moving a bank on one device makes the other move along with it.
All together this is more or less an upgraded version of an APC40MK2 with motorfaders and 2 rows of rotaries with displays (on on the push and one on the Icon)
I can use a max device that will allow global assignment of any parameter in a project on a single max device with 8 virtual encoders.
I can either select the channel or use the lock-to-controller function to have it visible on the push and a second one on the icon qcon pro x.
The displays do not let you see the encoder name yet. for this i would have to pack the max device into a group and assign every rotary to the max device and rename the rotary in the group.
This works, but is some hassle. But it gives me 16 rotaries with naming for control on any parameter in the project at any given time.
I can design a row of effects and select a few tweakable parameters this way. all instantly recallable and with clear functionality because i can give the rotaries my own name. Like “SWABANG!!” and let one rotary control even several parameters at once, even within a give scope of values. But now named and easy to figure out what i did if i open up a project a year later even without any controller. Because it is just 2 named banks of 8 (virtual) rotaries for the whole project
This is as close as I can think of getting what I want. Ideally however, for me it would look like something like this:
-A Yaeltex device that can have 4 (or even 8) rotaries on top of eachother for each channel.
-That would display the first encoders of the first effect/instrument/group in the channelchain as default (I could assign these to whatever in the chain)
-would display the names correctly instantly (even for max devices)
-would be able to move banks automatically alongside the push/icon
-some sort of easy preset setting and recalling -per channel- but also a combination of all/some channelsettings (presets would have to be in the project so that it would not ‘exist’ in the controller itself) Best would be: press 2 seconds to write, press short to recall, press 2 seconds to OVERwrite. Ideally this would be labeled aswell or at least colorcoded AND the have the ability to recall instantly AS WELL as on the next bar in the song like when triggering clips in ableton. It might be a solution to use rotaries with a switch functionality for this when it is pressed. Then there would already be displays for naming the presets/scenes)
Effectively everything would look like a studio mixer with all kinds of knobs above each channel, but instead of EQ and sends etc, it would be totally free creative functionality per rotary. different per project, all functionality is displayed and no extra mapping to a controller required because of the default first 8 encoders in a chain possibility.
My 2 cents
Hi folks (and in particular Ale),
This is a LONG first post - Apologies in advance
Found Yaeltex via a circuitous route that began discussion controller ergonomics and a peer working on creating a controller that has OLED screens. There was some discussion about Big Small screens, orientation etc.
Ergonomics are key.
Anyway, without going too much into some of my relevant music background (Hint Soundcloud) Pland_uk, i’ve been taking computers on stage to perform since well before Y2K.
So based on that discussion (which neatly drops into the discussion here) I mapped out a scale diagram of what such a thing might look like to give folks some ideas and get folks inspired over there.
Then I found Yaeltex and realized there’s not only a large amount of overlap in design philosophy (Modular units arranged to make a whole) but some of the concepts below might help make this a reality for the community.
So this is what I put together in a couple of hours to get some basic ideas across - There’s more around how the screens interact with controls for a fluid work flow. This is just a quick outline.
Obviously this is a “Fixed configuration” controller, but using modular ideas. Basically same as Yaeltex.
The diagram is drawn in Visio, and is to scale. Rack is 19" across, and the main section is 17.5" across.
I used the JP-8080 rack configuration as a baseline so we all have a common frame of reference on size.
The pitch (Horizontal spacing) between the vertical strips is the same as found on my Novation Remote Zero.
The buttons are the same size (10mm x 5mm), the potentiometer/encoder caps are 8mm in diameter - also same as the Remote Zero.
The faders are 80mm long (Picked just for aesthetics and to “Make them fit”).
This is all much more dense than the current Yaeltex modules, but the concepts apply no matter what pitches and size panels are in use.
As drawn, the buttons mimic the style of the JP-8080 but with a bi colored led.
Now I’ve seen the Yaeltex RGB buttons that’s the first revision I’d make.
RGB buttons are definitely the way to go.
Now to the fun stuff.
LOWER LEFT 8 “Strips” containing 24 pots
As drawn using pots, but continuous rotaries would be better (With or without an illuminated “Ring”) .
The modules behind this section of the controller would have 3 buttons and 3 encoders WITHOUT collars. Reasons 
Obviously folks will want a 4 pot * button combo module too - This type of “Hybrid” module would be a great addition to the current Yaeltex range - Something with 4 narrow pitch buttons and 4 narrow pitch pots on a module in the same form factor as the 8 small button module would rock.
Of course such a hybrid module (Two types of input on one board) counts as 2 modules, but it’s certainly more physically robust to install high density stuff that way and it opens up options for “Odd numbered” layouts such as 3 high density rows of buttons and one row of high density pots.
Moving onto the screens - in the diagram, ABOVE each POT/ENCODER is a MONOCHROMATIC 0.71" 48x64 dot OLED mounted in portrait (Vertical).
Can link to the data sheet of the part I used for sizing, but that feels like it wouldn’t be kosher here (And I’m in no way affiliated with any particular vendor here)
Anyway, 64 x 48 dots lets you get a good 7-8 characters horizontally. Not great… Not Big,
Mounting the “per pot” OLEDs in PORTRAIT mode allows the front panel to have a higher density pitch between columns / strips of input encoders & buttons
Also, thanks to portrait/vertical orientation you can easily fit 2 rows of text (16 Chars) for the name and still have a substantial area to display parameter values, status, or dynamic information without wasting horizontal space.
Using a wider pitch between columns would allow a bigger screen, but again, VERTICALLY mount the larger screens to enable more information to be clearly conveyed in the width of one encoder…
If you zoom in you can see some examples of text /graphics using this style.
Using a BI or even TRI color OLED panel per pot enables improved ergonomics and more intuitive “Situational awarenss” while the user is “In the flow”, but a Monochrome display per encoder is a huge leap forwards compared to what’s generally available now.
CUTE FEATURE - If you use a rotary encoder it would be trivial to have the screen change to show the CURRENT value update in mealtime and also show the ORIGINAL value and which way to rotate to get to it (In the snapshot / scene). Screens SHOULD be dynamic in nature - they’re not fixed “Silk screened” text!)
If Pots are used, have the screen show the name and the current value and a < > showing which way to turn to have the pot to match the stored value. Then display | when the pot position and the stored value match.
If a “Tune” button is pressed before the pot is turned, the parameter doesn’t change value until it matches the stored value (Enabling smooth change between stored parameter and the dynamic value generated by the pot). Also enables scene changes to be easily non disruptive and values to be aligned prior to actually needing them.
So while the screens in this mock up are monochrome, and admittedly small in this implementation- they are inexpensive per display and that means practically every encoder/pot can have one above it without needing google money to build it.
Summary - The main takeaways from the lower left section are are:
Bonus
Ok, Next up - 12 encoders & buttons around a central screen
While lower left section has 24 buttons and encoders, each of the upper two “Boxes” has 12 buttons and 12 encoders arranges around a 5.5" diagonal screen (I sized a 256 x 64 OLED here as an example)
The particular screens I drew come in monochrome, but Bi color and tri color displays can be sourced at reasonable cost.
If we want to get silly cost wise, there are multi touch capable displays with 1920x1080 full color resolution (Though HDMI Input makes them rather different to handle). This are a little bigger but really open the door to creative solutions and integrations.
Could be fun, but out of scope for now.
So, ignoring the buttons to the left and right of each TOP “box” for now,
A 5’5" screen in the middle of a “Cluster” of Pots and buttons permits the screen to be shared between 6 horizontal channels, each with two continuous parameters and 2 / 4 binary options (2 buttons & 2 pots, or 2 buttons + 2 continuous encoders with momentary push button if pressed).
All with proven ergonomic spacing.
A screen + encoders & buttons could be deployed as a single module, or with the screen as one module and 2 input modules either side (1 top and 1 bottom).
These 2 Row, 6 column input modules would be the same as those used in the LOWER LEFT section of this model.
For these input modules, orientation is “free”. This enables choice of buttons closer to the screen than knobs, or knobs closer to the screen than buttons, or arrange the whole thing vertically Vs horizontally.
As drawn wouldn’t look right, but with RGB buttons and continuous encoders… No problem!
The 5.5" 256x64 dot screen has just enough room to show two lines of 5-6 characters per pot/button pair.
Not great given the cost… BUT, using “Dynamic change” on the display significantly improves user experience.
Dynamic change means that when one of the encoders is touched it, the display expands a “Pop-up Window” over the left or right half of the screen to show a 128 Horizontal x 64 vertical “Parameter change” page.
That page can include all kinds of information and visual cues.
For example, the top left encoder is labelled “ATTK” and you press or turn the encoder.
Now the LEFT half the screen now shows the WHOLE amp envelope "Function: & the current and pre-press value of the ATTK parameter. This lets you restore something back to exactly where it was after a momentary change.
The pop up hides names of the other 5 knobs nearest the ATTK knob, but the six on the right side still show their names for navigation purposes.
Changing the “ATTK” value redraws the envelope in an intuitive way (This is pretty much how any Synth released in the past 30 years with a dot matrix display bigger than a Rizzla handles such things)
Next, in our example - The user decides to change the RLSE parameter of the FILTER envelope at the same time as tweaking the ATTTK parameter of the AMP envelope.
Once the user touches the RLSE encoder which is TOP RIGHT.
Now the RIGHT half of the screen shows the Filter ADSR and dynamically updates the release values and shows the changes in slope.
So at this point no NAMES are visible on the screen and the screen is split into two halves.
The LEFT half shows the AMP envelope and ATTK parameters, and the RIGHT half shows the Filter Envelope and RLSE parameters
User now decides to change BOTH the Attack AND Release of the AMP Envelope.
This time the WHOLE screen updates to ONE Large Parameter display that show the AMP envelope and both ATTK and RLSE values changing with the encoder and also their original values.
This is Logical and intuitive as both elements belong to the same “Functional block” - the Amp Envelope. As the user is focused on making changes with both hands, and will have to remove at least before selecting another encoder, there is no need to display ANY encoder names during 2 handed edits.
To recap
If you have two unrelated parameters being manipulated by hand you split the screen
If you have two related parameters, you use the whole screen to display the two values being changed and ideally visual cues / graphics showing their relative impact.
With “Plugin” modules for graphics / the visual cues displayed while an encoder is manipulated there are literally limitless options for customization.
Examples include the obvious ADSR Envelope shapes, Filter cutoff moving left and right with frequency, slope changes and resonance creating a spikes. Also nothing preventing modules being created for more complex things like EQs, Delay responses, Reverb parameters or even calculating the resultant wave form during FM synthesis…
This enables user attention to be focused on the controller with no need to break focus d to look away to a computer screen and reduces “mousing around.”
Summary - Central Screen 12 encoders & buttons
Most folks only have two hands so out of 12 options the small real estate for 12 “Labels” instantly becomes a large amounts of screen space space for detailed feedback on 1 or 2 parameters being tweaked at that time.
You have to remove your hand to select another encoder so:
If only ONE of the 12 parameters being changed and the hand removed from the encoder ( Or no changes after a user specified interval) the screen either flips back to all 12 names
If TWO parameters were being changed (No names visible because there were two edit popups), when ONE encoder is let go (Or unchanged after a while) its related popup closes and the screen reverts to showing the names of the buttons on that half of the screen.
To sum up, if you pick one of the left 6 encoders (either the 3 on the top or the 3 on the bottom), the “Change Popup” is drawn on the left side of the screen obscuring the nearest names (Which can be remembered easily).
Touch one of the right 6 encoders and the names of the 6 on the left remain visible and the “Change Popup” opens on the right side of the screen
It’s possible to get fancier with this, but the basic concepts should be pretty clear despite muddied writing…
The Fader Section to the lower right integrates the concepts from the centralized screen and distributed screens
Essentially, all the elements in a given “Strip” share one small screen. This dispenses with the large parameter change display, but enables multiple potentiometers to share one screen for basic parameter and “Name” information. Zoom in to the diagram for some ideas.
Finally the diagram has a small full color OLED next to a vector stick - This is multi-purpose and used for housekeeping on the unit, but its proximity to the x-y controller enables easy integration and feedback for controllers with 2 degrees for freedom Vs the usual 1.
Think that’s quite enough from me, if you’ve read this far - thank you.
Would love to hear feed back on this and happy to clarify my muddled English or answer any questions on this.
Regardless, forward to seeing watching things develop.
R
